Curse

Sherzo Rakrenga · Sep 12, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Im working ant the moment on a build that can make any hm zone (not doa and uw yet). Well the point is that atm i got a really nice backline and i'd like to people who get me ideas (not builds pls i like makin it on my own

) pls post the most uncommon thing u can imagin ive alredy tried ineptide panic roj sos ans sosg and i know they work rly well but im lookin for something diferent. Well here goes my backline:

Ua healer
pacien spirit
dwayans kiss
seed of life
finish condition
gole
dh
hd
ua

healin prayers 12+1+1
divine favor 12+1

hb healer
etereal light
dwaynas kiss
seed of life
heal hex
auspicius ench
heal party
mimicry
hb

healin prayers 12+1+1
divine favor 10+1
insp magic 8

st defensive

st
displacement
shelter
union
wanderlust weapon
signet of creation
boon of creation
flesh of my flesh

For my midline if think on 1ss and 1 vor fallbackshouters.

And before ill forgot i play assasin with any dagger/sf build.

So thx onadvice for ur help

Anti Welfare · Sep 12, 2011, 10:31 PM // 22:31

those 3 bars alone have far too many heals imo. can easily drop one of the monks completely in favor of another full dmg bar.

AndroBubbles · Sep 12, 2011, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Way too much defense. I prefer to have a single n/rt healing plus ST rit. In corpse heavy areas I switch out ST for a MM just to deal with less micro. My midline has hex removal like smite hex/shatter hex so I don't need to worry too much about that. You should only need 1-2 pure support characters, and even those can add a little damage if you want. My n/rt on backline alternates between reaper's mark, icy veins and xinrae's weapon, depending on how much energy I think she'll need.

Xenomortis · Sep 13, 2011, 01:03 AM // 01:03

The Healer's Boon guy sucks so you can get rid of him.
The UA guy isn't too bad but needs to lose Patient Spirit and Healing Seed (I think you meant that instead of Seed of Life). Give him Gift of Health; that necessitates cutting Dwayna's Kiss too. GoLE sucks on UA bars though. Hex removal and Shield of Absorption are fine things to give this guy; condition removal can be handled elsewhere.
Although for a melee physical, I recommend an E/Mo with Ether Renewal to power Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond and Infuse Health instead of a Monk.

Cut out Signet of Creation and whatever that weapon spell is on the ST Rit; neither are necessary nor particularly useful.

Then take the following hero:
Rt/Mo
11+1+2/3 Channeling, 9 Smiting, 10+1 Restoration
Signet of Spirits, Bloodsong, Ancestor's Rage, Splinter Weapon, Spirit Siphon, Mend Body and Soul*, Protective was Kaoli, Strength of Honor

This hero (and its variants) is probably the strongest hero template in existence and a variation of it should pretty much always be in your hero setup over anything else.
*This is the condition removal I mentioned earlier.

For what it's worth, since you want a build that can do pretty much anything in HM, I'd look at skills like Panic for your midline; Panic heroes are pretty strong and do decent damage. A Minion Master is a strong choice also and can take some utility stuff (heals, prots, fallback) Then you can stack on more offensive heroes; ESurge Mesmers are good offensively, Invoke Eles are fair and even Feast of Corruption/Pain of Disenchantment Curses heroes are useful, they hybridise really well since Curses only has a handful of things you want (Mark of Pain, two non-elite direct damage skills, maybe Enfeebling Blood) so it can take either Fallback or some Rit heals.

Sherzo Rakrenga · Sep 13, 2011, 05:34 AM // 05:34

so u guy are telling me that my best choic will be drop 1 of this 3 heros and u mixbars and suporbars well how about that then:

hb healer
same build

ua protter
absorcion shield
guardian
protective spirit
aegis
gole
hd
dh
ua

prot 12+1+1
divine favor 12+1

cataphract · Sep 13, 2011, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Will you let go of the UA already? Take UA on your monk when pugging to shut them up but never use it yourself. Take a hybrid build for your monk hero: WoH [E], Dwayna's Kiss, PS, Aegis, Dismiss Condition, Cure Hex. Works good coupled with a standard N/Rt healer.

Sherzo Rakrenga · Sep 13, 2011, 12:30 PM // 12:30

ill considered but i dont rly like necros as healin but ill test it

Xenomortis · Sep 13, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

A UA Monk is absolutely fine as a hero; it's probably better than a N/Rt because it can do more stuff. And you only need one dedicated backliner when running with heroes. A lot of the time you can get away without any.

Outerworld · Sep 13, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I'd drop the HB monk rather than the UA, though I would replace Guardian with Gift. Also I find the N/Rt healers massively outdated nowdays; they don't do anything else in addition to the healing (and no, a low spec Splinter isn't that great).

cataphract · Sep 13, 2011, 06:03 PM // 18:03

TBH, I'd drop both UA and HB. But that's just crazy old me.

Sherzo Rakrenga · Sep 13, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

well im with outerworld n/rt only heal and monks make that better than them

itiscurtains · Sep 13, 2011, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I, too, agree that a UA hero beats a Resto-only N/Rt. Personally, though, I'm finding it harder and harder to bring dedicated healers these days. My one dedicated backliner is my ST, and, apart from that, I prefer hybrid healers. The nice thing about N/Rts - apart from massive e-management - is their capacity to take things like MoP, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, BiP, Blood Bond, Mark of Fury, etc.

Anaraky · Sep 13, 2011, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I would make the ST rit a ST/resto hybrid or a ST/domination hybrid. Communing/Spawning power pretty much sucks besides Shelter IMHO so if you are going a 12/12 split you have to fill up your bar with 50% mediocre skills. ST/resto works fine if you are running something like BiP otherwise a ST/domination with signets work pretty good.

HB is awful, drop it. Overload on defence as well. UA monks are fine, some people like them and some don't. Either way they get the job done and allows you to take fewer resurrection skills.

Also either a Smiting monk or any kind of X/Smiting prayers hybrid is recommended in most melee hero setups. SoH is amazing, and the other skills aren't half-bad either.

My 2c.

cataphract · Sep 14, 2011, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraky

UA monks are fine, some people like them and some don't. Either way they get the job done and allows you to take fewer resurrection skills.

UA monks are teh bad.

1) Monk heroes have no business resurrecting.
2) Your heroes have better things to do than dying.
3) If your team need a fast full health res in order not to get wiped, you're doing something terribly wrong.
4) It just makes heroes' bad energy management even worse.
5) Pre-protting is still better than pushing red bars.
6) Enchantment removal is ubiquitous in this game.

In conclusion: Load UA yourself only when pugging. Load WoH hybrid if you know what you're doing.

Anaraky · Sep 14, 2011, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

UA monks are teh bad.

1) Monk heroes have no business resurrecting.
2) Your heroes have better things to do than dying.
3) If your team need a fast full health res in order not to get wiped, you're doing something terribly wrong.
4) It just makes heroes' bad energy management even worse.
5) Pre-protting is still better than pushing red bars.
6) Enchantment removal is ubiquitous in this game.

In conclusion: Load UA yourself only when pugging. Load WoH hybrid if you know what you're doing.

That is your opinion, yes. You've made it abundantly clear you don't like UA monks in like half the posts in this thread and I doubt I'll change your mind so I'll just go with the "Some people like them, some don't" once again.

Outerworld · Sep 14, 2011, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

UA monks are teh bad.

1) Monk heroes have no business resurrecting.
2) Your heroes have better things to do than dying.
3) If your team need a fast full health res in order not to get wiped, you're doing something terribly wrong.
4) It just makes heroes' bad energy management even worse.
5) Pre-protting is still better than pushing red bars.
6) Enchantment removal is ubiquitous in this game.

In conclusion: Load UA yourself only when pugging. Load WoH hybrid if you know what you're doing.

1)Monk heroes have no buisness resurrecting when it prevents them from being able to heal. UA has low cast time and can be removed instantly.
2)This would be true but lets be fair here, heroes make mistakes, yes you can micro them but shit happens and when it does, UA makes it completely irrelevant.
3)As with the above; heroes aren't perfect and a full res makes the death meaningless provided it doesn't happen over and over.
4)This would laregly depend on what other skills you give to it. If the monk has good e-management without UA, merely adding it won't make that much difference.
5)I agree completely, but there's no reason you can't run prot on a UA bar.
6)I can't argue against that.

I'm not a fanboy for UA but I don't think you're giving it quite enough credit for a hero team. Also I can't speak from experience, but wouldn't WoH have wasted potential on a hero since they probably don't recognise the bonus healing with it?

Sherzo Rakrenga · Sep 14, 2011, 11:58 AM // 11:58

well pls focus on midlines an frontlines i know the backlines well ua,hb,n/rt,rt/me st rts, e/mo prot all of them are rly good and that is irrefutable they only have different styles.
now what spike can i use vor or ss. invoke eles. panic and ineptitude.

Anaraky · Sep 14, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

VoR/SS are bad in general PvE. They are only good if your party overall is bad since they are better the longer it takes to kill stuff and they are only good on grouped mobs. When facing grouped mobs they should get spiked within a few seconds, rendering VoR/SS useless.

Ineptitude, Panic and ESurge are all reliable and are good at what they do.
Invoke Eles work decently, not amazing but useful enough.
A SoS Rit is good thanks to high level Splinter/Ancestors Rage in addition to solid consistent DPS and secondary support characteristics.
A Curse Necro might be of interest utilizing skills such as MoP, Weaken Armor, FoC/PoD etc.
Some people like MMs/MBs or SoGM spirit spammers. I personally don't, but you might want to look into that as well.

I know you said you tried a couple of the things I listed and you wanted something different, but there aren't a whole lot of midline builds that can compare to the cookie-cutter Mesmers or Ritualists primarily and Necromancers secondarily.

As for a frontline, since you play Assassin you are all set. You don't need more then that.

cataphract · Sep 14, 2011, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Also I can't speak from experience, but wouldn't WoH have wasted potential on a hero since they probably don't recognise the bonus healing with it?

Never had any issues with WoH hybrid heroes other than their love for PS-ing minions. Which is easily circumvented with disabling PS and microing it. As for WoH - it's a cheap, fast and powerful heal. Combined with prot skills it makes a really powerful bar capable of damage reduction (Aegis is insanely good), hex removal, condition removal, great healing that gets even better with hexed and enchanted allies. UA is a primate-friendly skill bar that only pushes red bars until it can't take the pressure anymore and then resorts to fast res to cover it up. Basically, it's a flashy demonstration of how US debt/default works. And that cannot be good.

Anaraky · Sep 14, 2011, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Never had any issues with WoH hybrid heroes other than their love for PS-ing minions. Which is easily circumvented with disabling PS and microing it. As for WoH - it's a cheap, fast and powerful heal. Combined with prot skills it makes a really powerful bar capable of damage reduction (Aegis is insanely good), hex removal, condition removal, great healing that gets even better with hexed and enchanted allies. UA is a primate-friendly skill bar that only pushes red bars until it can't take the pressure anymore and then resorts to fast res to cover it up. Basically, it's a flashy demonstration of how US debt/default works. And that cannot be good.

Yes, a UA bar can only redbarr if you build it that way. No one is forcing you to do so however. A UA+GoH Protection hybrid works fine. Less spot healing but more AoE healing then a WoH hybrid and has access to prots as well.